If you're an entrepreneur, my guess is that you value your time, your freedom, and your financial independence. I'm so excited to tell you that today we have Katy Chen Mazzara on as a guest, and she is a financial coach to creatives/ entrepreneurs, so join us today as she talks about how to experience more freedom with financial fluctuations that happen from month to month.
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Welcome to the Breakthrough Mastermind Show. I'm your host, Jen Argue, and I facilitate masterminds for women entrepreneurs who want to grow their businesses to help others and create financial independence. I'm so excited to have Katy Chen Mazzara with us today. She is a financial coach and wealth mentor to creatives who are seeking freedom when it comes to money and their lives.
Welcome Katy, and would you add anything to that? Yeah, absolutely. I help people to make more money, worry less about it, and to achieve the true financial freedom so that you can create the life of your dreams. Mm. So you are really qualified to do this, given your background. Can you share your background with us because it's so interesting?
Yeah, absolutely. So I was a TV producer for 15 years, and as a TV producer, I was freelance. So I'm working from job to job and I was trying to figure out how people did this, you know, how people saved and paid off debts and invested in their future when their income was so inconsistent. And so I went on a journey of like trying to figure it out for myself.
Read all of the books that you can possibly read on personal finance and realized there weren't really a lot of things that specifically spoke to those of us with that inconsistent income. And started figuring out all of this by myself and then my colleagues started asking me like, how do you do it? How do you not worry about money when you're not working?
Or how did you manage to even buy a place? You know, cuz I bought my own house, um, a loft in downtown LA in my 30's and, you know, through a lot of trial and error. So that was like the, you know, one of the reasons why I got into it and learned how to do this, and then started to get certified as a financial coach, as a life coach.
And also last year I did a program that was a trauma-informed program and I have a personal financial planning degree from UC Berkeley because I feel like it all goes together. It's like, you know it, you need to have a holistic approach to your finances rather than just looking at it from a numbers perspective.
Because for those of us who are more creative-minded, just looking at those numbers is not going to help, you know, it's not going to help solve things. It's not going to help you pay down your debts quicker. It's not going to help you to invest in your business. You know, all of those things, you know, it would be more challenging to do that.
Mm... What do you think are some of the factors that make it more challenging for creatives? Well, first of all, we don't think like that, right? We don't think in numbers. We don't really want to look at, you know, our cash flow is for, for example, you know, from month to month or have like a spreadsheet too, to look at.
Being able to predict out like what, um, what we need in the future. And then in terms of our investments, I think a lot of times like creative minded people are also about their intuition, which I really believe in. I really believe that your intuition is everything, right? And a lot of times, like, you know, great entrepreneurs actually will say that their intuition is what led them to where they are now.
You know? So if you're not listening to your intuition and you're mostly listen, Or trying to put things together on a spreadsheet, it could backfire and could like not work for you or it could actually just keep you stuck in a certain place. You know that isn't a place where you may want to... to be, you know, as well, so...
Mm-hmm. I know it's interesting to hear you talk about creatives, and you did bring up entrepreneurs because I do feel like people who are CEOs are the visionaries. They are the creatives. I agree… I agree... when I say creatives, sure like a lot of people I work with are artists and musicians, and actors and writers.
However, I'm also talking about like if you are doing something where you're putting out something into the world that wasn't there before, you're a creative person, right? And if you consider yourself a creative person, then you are a creative person, right? Mm-hmm…um, because creation is... There's is so much about bringing forth something into the world that wasn't there, to begin with.
Like if you're a mom, you're also a creative person. [laughs] Mm-hmm. , you know, because you just created life like what's greater than that, you know? Oh, it's, I know, I know. And it's interesting because when I run my masterminds, one of the first things we do is we look at the financials and I look to see that they've got something set up that's handling the financial aspect of their business.
And so often there's not a lot there that's set up as far as systems and it's, I think because they are functioning out of the visionary creative side of their strengths. And the finances just are not part of that [laughs] so, right. It might be good at making money, but then once it's come in, it comes in, it's like, oh, you know, I don't want to really look at that or pay attention to that.
Absolutely, and that could also be about our stories, right? Because that was me for a long time. I mean, I grew up with a grandmother on my dad's side who really felt like money was so important to her. She was also an entrepreneur, real estate investor and all these things, and she made a lot of money. However, she also made money mean so much to her that like she actually would say things like, oh, when I die I'm gonna be buried with all my money.
You're… nobody's getting any of my money because I'm gonna take it all out and be buried with it. And so, because I didn't wanna be like her, there was a period of my life in the beginning of my career where. Yeah, I could make money, but as soon as I made it, it all went out, you know, I was buying drinks for friends, I was taking cabs everywhere, [laughs] uh, you know, when I lived in New York City, and I just didn't care about, you know, saving it for tomorrow because I did not want it to mean…
Anything to me, you know, that was more significant than people, right? And because of that story, because of like how I grew up with that grandmother who felt like money was the most important thing in her life. And now I've like learned, okay, I want to balance between that and money does not need to represent what my grandmother made it mean.
Instead, I get to put my own value onto money and my value onto money is that it creates freedom for me. And it's like, you know, it's one of those things where the more money I have, the more freedom of choice I have. That also goes into the mission I have, you know, for my business, because I actually know three women in my life who had to stay in their abusive relationships because they didn't work outside the home.
They didn't have a lot of their own money and they had small, young children to take care of, and they didn't feel like they had a choice, and they just felt stuck in that choice. And so my mission is to really empower everyone I know to be able to make decisions, not based on money.
Instead to really have that part of your life feel easy and graceful and good and flowing so that then you have the freedom of choice to be able to make decisions that are good for yourself as well as for your family and the ability to pursue the dreams that you have. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . That is a great mission.
That's part of my company's mission as well. Tell me more stories. If you have more stories of people that you've helped because I think… that is so important to uncover. How we handle money is related to the stories that we have about money. Mm-hmm… do you have another example of somebody that you've worked with that had some kind of AHA moment like that?
Yeah, so I worked with a client who had a pretty, I mean, it wasn't even a very explicit or conscious story or belief. However, when we went really deeply into her money blocks and her story, and her emotional being, what we uncovered was that she had a grandfather back in another country who actually got stoned to death because he was a wealthier landowner.
Hm… And for her for the longest time, she always felt like she could make a certain amount and then just hit that ceiling and never get beyond that ceiling. And it was really rooted in that, right? Because in that belief, like something within us sometimes, like we hold on to things, right? Even generations later, even though she had never met this grandfather because he had died, you know when her father was young.
And she held onto it in her body that it's not safe to actually be wealthy. Hm…hm… It's not safe to be rich, right? Because you know other people are gonna be jealous of you. Other people are going to attack you. And this look at what happened to her grandfather. And so that was the reason she kept herself from really breaking through to the next level.
And only made a certain amount that was like, just enough to pay all of her bills, basically, you know, and to live a… you know, a lifestyle that she wanted, but it was not the lifestyle that was like what she really wanted to, to get to, you know, to really achieve. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , I feel like there was so much talk about this, like recently when there, you know, there was that $2 billion lottery… mm-hmm…
Uh, winning that was happening and I was thinking a lot about how people have these financial set points mm-hmm. and why we have them, and why we self-sabotage to stay at them. Yes. And it's, it's a very powerful. Yes. Yeah, I mean there's, studies have shown that you know, people who win the lottery will lose it within three years, right?
70% of lottery winners have lost their lottery winnings within three years, and it feels like something that is so impossible to most of us who haven't won the lottery. [laughs] Like, we're like, no way. That's never gonna be me. However, so much of like what you know comes through, right? The money only amplifies like what you already feel inside of you.
And if what you feel inside of you is, I don't really deserve to have all that money, right? Like all of a sudden that money comes to you and it's. Yeah, a billion dollars, $2 billion I think was the last big jackpot, and you start to feel like I don't deserve it. Even on a very unconscious level, you're feeling that way.
Then you start to be able to give it away so easily or just start to spend it on things that you never thought you would actually spend money on. All of this stuff starts to happen, and then you're also more susceptible to be taken advantage of as well. Mm… And so to me it makes total sense that if you don't know who you are yet and what you bring to the table and be really grounded and rooted in something, then it's really easy for that money to just go away.
Mm-hmm… Mm-hmm… how have you helped people to get beyond those challenge? Yeah, we do some practical steps and then also some very spiritual steps. Um, the spiritual steps are really uncovering your money blocks, so that is taking a look at your story and seeing what, what you've, you know, started off in life with because as children, we absorb everything.
We don't know what money really is. And the only thing that you know about it is what you experience around your parents, your grandparents, or aunts and uncles or other people, right? And you know, so many of us like will inherit some of that as we get older, right? We start to believe that those things that we saw as kids were true, right?
Like for me, it was the grandmother's story. Or you know, for my client, it was her grandfather's story that she didn't even know. However, it really affected her father too, right? So of course there's some of that that's still left within her. And then until you uncover it, Um, it's always gonna be a little bit of a block and, you know and create something that you don't want in your life, you know, as well.
So then once you've uncovered it and it comes to the surface, then you get to decide. You get to decide whether or not you wanna keep that belief or you want to let it go, right? And give it back to whomever it belongs to, right? [laughs] Or you can just let it go out of your life and release it. So that's, you know, practical things.
I mean, we work a lot too with self-worth. And then, uh, I mean, one of the spiritual things that we do, um, the practical piece it's, you know, it's still important to track your money. I don't believe in budgets per se, because budgets to me are very much like diets where you may be able to do it for a couple months, you know?
Um, however, it's not a long-sustaining thing, you know, especially for… those of us who are more ride-brain creative types, but however, it's so important to track and know, right? Like I always tell people to start off just tracking your expenses and your income for at least three months. See what the patterns are, right?
If you can do it for a year, especially if you're an entrepreneur, then that is really powerful because you can start to see patterns in what is happening in your business, right? Like before I actually tracked, I didn't even realize until later that it was like, yeah, every summer around like June, July, August, those are like the lighter months, right?
Those are the months when my income may dip, and so… then I have a choice, right? Like do I then… do a launch around April, May to get me through the summer to have more income, or do I just take that time to like go on vacation or something, right? Like this summer I did, right? Like this summer it was my 10 year wedding anniversary, and we went to London and Paris and had a great time, you know, and just didn't, don't, you know, it's not important to think about that or worry about that, right?
But if you know you can see these patterns, then you can make different decision. About your business, you know? So that's really important. So tracking is so important, and it also creates a more conscious thing for you to know, oh yeah, you're not just blindly spending on things and at the end of the month going, oh, I know I made some money, but I don't know where it all went.
Right. Yeah. I want you to actually know where every dollar went because that's really important too. You know, so that you're, you're making conscious decisions and not just spending on things that you're like, yeah, it's, you know, I think I needed that, but I have no idea. Mm… I love that. I definitely fall into the creative camp because any of that sort of thing is just like, ugh, so painful.
You know? [laughs] But it's like I, when I decided, okay, I'm gonna do the work because it is gonna buy me freedom, it is gonna help me feel more empowered like you're saying. Something really interesting happened. I ended up going to a fundraiser for a local organization. Now I'm on the board of, but back then I was just supporting and they were doing a drive and I knew exactly how much was in my budget and what I could give, and I felt so.
So much like a boss to be able to say, I can give this much regularly. Like I actually have this much dispensable income that I know I can give towards a charity. You know, and it felt so like boss level [laughs] to be able to say, I can do that without stress. And yes, and feel excited about it. Yes, Jen. [laughs] This is exactly it.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's so awesome to be able to… Yeah, when you know what is coming in, what's going out, and yeah, you have an idea instead of just like, oh, I, I don't know. You know, somebody else takes care of all of that, right? [laughs] Because you can, you can totally have somebody else taken care, like have a bookkeeper, you know, have your accountants.
You know that is really important, you know, um, especially if you don't like to do any of that stuff yourself. However, it's still important that you understand it all, right? Like you need to have those regular meetings too, with your accountants and bookkeepers and stuff so that you actually know and you are making the decisions.
You're not allowing them to make those decisions for you of what you need to do, or not to do, you know, and like how much you want to put away into your retirement accounts, right? Especially like for us, as entrepreneurs, we don't have anybody else giving us a matching 401k, [laughs] you know? It's up to us to create that, right?
And create our retirement fund. And so you get to dictate that and tell them what you want, you know, at the end of the year, and then everybody's working together to make that happen too. Mm-hmm… Mm-hmm… What would you say are some exciting success stories that you've seen from people that you've worked?
Yeah. Well very recently, even during the pandemic, I was working with somebody who was a member of my “Financial Freedom for Creatives Club,” and in the beginning, she said to me like, I don't know, I don't know if any of this is working for me. I, you know, I feel a stagnant, right? Like, I'm not making that much more money.
I'm kind of feeling like everything is, I'm doing the same things over and over again. I'm also a mom and my ex and I don't really get along and I, you know, I'm paying child support for my ex and I kind of resent him for it. And all of these things, like things were not going well in her life. You know, like her friendships, she didn't feel like she had a very close-knit group of friends and her relationship wasn't great.
And then also, you know, this not making enough money in her career and all of these things. And so, and we started to slowly just start by uncovering like her money blocks and you know, where things came from and how, you know, what things look like for her. And, um, throughout this process, like seven or eight months into it, she was like, it was unbelievable the change, right?
Because she all of a sudden she made the most money she had ever made in her career. She actually got to the next level of her career. She's a, uh, TV producer, and she skipped a level, right? Like usually you go from like supervising producer. Then you go like senior producer, supervising producer, then co-executive producer, right?
Like she skipped from, she went from senior producer all the way to a co-executive producer, you know, the the next shows that she was working on. And she stayed in that position too for all of this time. And her relationship with her ex got better. Like, they don't fight. They're like, they get along for the sake of their kids.
And she met somebody and got engaged… [laughs] I know… It's really crazy. [laughs] And so many times, like people will come to me and they're like, yeah, they meet. The person they're supposed to be with, they like, you know, have babies. All of this stuff happens and they're like, it's so weird. It's like, it has nothing to do with money, right?
And I'm like, well, it doesn't directly have anything to do with money, but money is our financial life is a reflection of our emotional life. And so when our emotional life is getting better and better and easier and easier, Then it creates this financial flow for ourselves. And that's the power of this work is that you're creating a different flow for yourself in the same way that like [foreign] and you know, clearing out your spaces and decluttering, like creates different flow into your life, right?
Money is the same thing. So that's what's so powerful about this work. Mm… That is incredible. I love that type of story and how you see, so that happened to so many other people too, and that it feels like you are just increasing their energy, their feelings about feeling better and more in control. And even if your finances.
It might be scary to look at. There's still something that feels good about knowing where everything's at, even though you might not think it is. It actually. Yes. Yes. And I created in a way that like most people, I mean, I've heard from so many people that are like, wow, I never thought finances could be fun. [laughs]
Tell me more about that. Yeah. [laughs] And we make it fun, right? Because Yes, I mean, we do wanna get into some of those heavier emotional pieces. However, then there needs to be lightness, right? And fun. And one of the best ways to actually, to change up your flow is to get into fun, you know, to think about what it is that when you were a kid that you love to do, like I had a, a member one time, you know, she was like looking for a job, looking for jobs.
She can't, couldn't find anything, right? For the longest time. And then I was like, stop looking for a job. And she was like, what? What do you mean? [laughs] And I was like, what is it that you like to do for fun? And she was like, well, when you were little. And she goes, oh, I used to love to go swing, right? That made me feel really free and fun, you know, that it was really fun for me.
So I was like, okay, that's your assignment. Your assignment is to go and swing every single day, [laughs] every single day for the next like three weeks and I said, it can be like a minute or it can be 10 minutes, however long it feels good for you. So she started doing it. In the beginning, she told me she was just doing it as like an assignment. She was really treading it. [laughs]
Then she started to have fun and as soon as she started having fun, I think it was just a week after that she got the job that she said was like her dream job. Yeah. And she was making the most money. All of these things started happening to her, you know, and she didn't go out looking for it. And it wasn't painful and, and hard in any way [laughs].
You know… [laughs] I love that. What a valuable lesson for her to actually experience to go from, okay, I'll do this assignment, to actually having fun with it and then getting rewarded for having fun in her life. Mm-hmm… Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I hope she's still swinging. [laughs] Yeah… No, she's found other things to have fun. [laughs]
That's awesome. Yeah. How about for you personally? What have you done to connect with equating money to freedom, and how do you do that in your life? Yeah, I do that with my core values, you know, I love really taking a look at what are your core values. What are mine, you know, and then each month at the top of the month, I actually look at my list of core values?
I have 10 and I just pick one on that day, and then I put it into practice I body, whatever that value is. And let's say it's freedom. That's one of my top core values. And I will do something in that day to make myself feel the sense of freedom, right? So whatever that means to me. And sometimes it's like taking a drive with the windows.
Down, you know, we live in Southern California, [laughs] so it's nice to be able to do that even on a winter day. And then playing my music super loudly and singing at the top of my lungs. [laughs] And then sometimes if I'm having a day where my schedule's pretty filled, I will just take a few moments and play. A Lizzo song or something and dance around in my office and that makes me feel freedom, right?
And so it's really just a great reminder for me to make decisions based on that. That's one of the things too, whenever I have big money decisions to make, whether it is being in a coaching program with, you know, other entrepreneurs, a mastermind or whatever it is, the, you know, those decisions get filtered through my core values, and I get to take a look and see how many of my core values does it hit.
If it's the majority of them, then yes. This is a decision I'm not gonna regret in the future. And if it's not, then nope, this is not a decision I'm gonna make because it does inevitably I will regret that decision because it doesn't align with my core values. Mm-hmm… Absolutely, I love that you do that, and core values are so key to loving your life and loving your business, and loving your finances too.
Yes, absolutely. That's great. Yeah. And then on a practical level, I definitely encourage people to have savings, right? Like I've had to savings ever since I was a TV producer. And then even now as a, you know, as my own business owner, I have like a year's worth of expenses saved up. Mm-hmm… Because when you have that savings in the bank. It's not like everything is do or die, right? Like nothing is so desperate because that desperate energy that doesn't attract anyone, right? Like I'm not gonna get clients if I feel desperate to, [laughs] for them to sign up. You know? It's a great cushion for me to know that there's always more than enough.
Mm-hmm… Yeah, that does give so much peace, just to know you have that cushion. Yeah. Mm-hmm…what would you suggest to the person who's listening right now, and let's say you might not be that person, but let's just say listener that you are that person who struggles with finances who might not have things as tidy as you'd like.
You definitely identify as a creative, whether you are an entrepreneur or in some industry, some creative industry. What would you say for that person, Katy, who's listening to just feel some sort of, I don't know, like they're taking a step in the right direct. When they feel overwhelmed in this area already?
Yeah. Well, first of all, if you're listening and if you actually are starting to pay attention, that's the first step really. You know, you're already doing it. You're already saying to yourself that you want this part of your life to be easier, and when you actually say that to yourself, then things will get easier, right?
Um, the universe is always listening and it's always creating moments for you to actually learn and to grow. And so, just even by listening to this podcast interview, right? and to… you were meanted to actually hear this today. And if you are meant to hear this today, then you know you're on the right path and that things will get easier if you keep going.
Just keep going. Mm-hmm… and you'll be surprised, like, you know, six months from now, a year from now, things are gonna get, you know, that much easier and easier for you, right? Yeah. I just, I know that everybody can do this, right? It doesn't matter. I'm somebody who grew… growing up I was like crying at the kitchen table with my dad while he was teach, trying to teach me Math.
You know, so you don't have to be good at math, you don't have to be, [laughs] you know, any of these things, right, that people think like are associated with finances or being good with your money. Like those things are not true. Like anybody can be good with their money. Mm… Absolutely, and I love that you are in the field of helping creatives, especially because you see, that anybody can do it.
Yes. And honestly, it's like, I love how you say that you know, just imagine yourself having those better experiences with it, six months from now, 12 months from now, and that just getting there is just doing one step at a time. Yeah. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. Exactly, it really doesn't. And I would say start small too, you know, I mean, I like to inspire myself sometimes too, is like, um, let's say we were just talking about the lottery win, right?
Like, start by even writing down like what would you do with that money if you actually won it. You know, and then start to look at the things on that list and say, what can I start with now, you know, I may not be able to buy like five homes, you know, [laughs] around the world, but can I start with one, right?
And where do I want to start with, how do I want to start to save up for that home as well? Mm-hmm… Because if it's on your list of things, you know your lottery-winning dreams, right? Then it's most likely something that is, it's like such a soul build dream for you to actually be able to achieve in the future.
And so I do think that there is a possibility for you to be able to make that happen for yourself. Yeah. Even if you didn't win the lottery, you can do it on your own. Mm… It's best to bet on yourself, right? Then something oh, 100%… out there. That's why we're all entrepreneurs too, right? Like the whole reason, you get into being an entrepreneur is because you wanna be your own boss.
You want to bet on yourself, right? And you want to, yeah, put your money where your mouth is [laughs] and like, you know, and do it, you know? Mm-hmm… So, yeah. Oh, those are such good words. I feel like anybody who's listening to this is going to feel so uplifted and inspired, and maybe even have more hope too because of it.
So thank you for sharing those words. Absolutely, I’d been my pleasure. Well, Katy, if someone were wanting to get into your universe and learn more from you, where would you send them? Yeah, I'm on all social media, and my website @katychenmazzara.com or @katychenmazzara. And that's spelled @K-A-T-Y-C-H-E-N-M-A-Z-Z-A-R-A
And I also have a free masterclass that's coming up in December. And, um, I'll share the link with you for the show notes and, you know, hopefully, yeah, everybody can join me. It's free and I'm gonna give, I'm somebody who loves to just give as much as I can possibly give, you know, and so many times people who have never even worked with me have said, oh my gosh, I saved for the first time I've actually paid down my debts.
I'm saving up for a house. Just from one of your free, you know, classes, you know, so [laughs] so you, you know, it's really, it's gonna be really powerful and we're gonna go through the six steps to finding financial freedom for yourself. Wow. Definitely, all of the links that Katy just mentioned, including to that masterclass will be in all the show notes wherever you're listening to this.
So definitely go find Katy out there and connect with her. She is doing great stuff. I forgot to mention that Katy and I are neighbors. Yes. We live… I don't a couple of miles or two away from each other and are able to enjoy this wonderful town, Yes. Um, at the coffee shops and have fun connecting. So I love that we were able to… in real life, [laughs] not just on Zoom… and in an actual coffee shop. Right [laughs]
Yeah, Jen's been one few entrepreneur friends that I actually get to see in real life. [laughs] It's such a treat. Yeah, I love that. We can do that. And I love that you're on the podcast today so everyone else can get to know you as well. Yeah, it's been my honor and pleasure. Thank you, Jen. Thanks, Katy. I loved having Katy on the show today, and I hope that you got a lot of hope and maybe even some ideas of how to take a step in a direction that is going to serve you as you focus on your finances.
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